DX_BORG_KING
Species Type: Idiotus Trekkis (Voyagerus type)
Subject: Minbari vs. Federation
DX_BORG_KING's first post:
it is my understanding that many B5 supporters think that a single pilot flying an unshielded B5 ship of any clas would hold up to a starship capitol ship.....that is simply not true.....the weapons on a mimbari fighter dont even get a gigahertz of power out of it...as a federation shield on a regular constition classes shields are over 20,000 mega jules of protective energy....not only that but capitol ships are MUCH larger and efficiant in every respect...thier tagetting is multi directional,MUCH more powerful and requires MUCH less time to recharge for another round of fire....with this in mind....it would take 1 single phaser shot to eliminate any b5 ship at great distances...and still be able to manuever without loss of accuracy.......now as for b5's weapons they are weak....and they are even weaker at a long range....and are also only foward firing....which tells me that in order to make effectice attacks...they would have to attack in waves of over 50 ships at a time (the reason for this being that a phaser array consist of over 50 individual phaser cannons) each with enough payload to destroy a b5 ship with a single shot.....not only is a larger ship more efficant but it also has room to produce and store more energy than a single pilot craft...with these FACTS in place it is clear to me that even in a 300 vs match up the connie would remain intact and victorious...1 1 the b5 weapons dont have enough energy at close range to heavily damage shields in the mega jules department....and 2 the b5 ships have little chance of getting in close enough to do the maximum damage thier weapons can put out....if such a thing were to happen the only way b5 ships would stand a chance is if they go on a kamikaze mission.....that is all ....i hope i didnt ruffle any feathers but im a science major and watch both star trek and b5.....you can go in denial all you want but when it all boils down star trek would open a severe can of whoop ass on b5...no offense intended
My initial response:
the weapons on a mimbari fighter dont even get a gigahertz of power out of it
My fucking God, YOU DON'T RATE POWER BY HERTZ!!!!!!! That's a measure of a wave's frequency! Power is watts, and energy is joules.
(Editor's Note: Behold rampant stupidity in it's form, ladies and gentlemen. This person does not even know BASIC units of measurement. What kind of idiot would rate power by HERTZ?! Is there an idiot rating that would go high enough to account for this? What's he trying to do, earn his way into the writing staff of Voyager?)
as a federation shield on a regular constition classes shields are over 20,000 megajules of protective energy
Bah, 20 gigawatts is the number you're searching for. Considering that B5's normal weapon is 200 megawatts, you're not getting a lot of brownie points here.
(EN: Is this guy even capable of correct spelling? I know America's schooling system is becoming shittier and shittier, but this takes the cake. He obviously is incapable of spelling beyond your average third grader. And his knowledge of units is equally bad. Why bother saying "20,000 megajoules" when you can simply say "20 gigajoules"? Hell, why is he rating a shield's power output in joules anyway? He should be using watts, which for those of you unfamiliar with such measurements, equals 1 joule per second. (ie 20 gigawatts = 20 gigajoules per second). I didn't mention it, but where did he get his number from anyhow? A day dream?)
thier tagetting is multi directional,MUCH more powerful and requires MUCH less time to recharge for another round of fire
B5 weapons also have good firing arcs. Have you not seen scenes where they fire off-axis? And don't get me started on targeting.
it would take 1 single phaser shot to eliminate any b5 ship at great distances
In your dreams. Even those who side with Trek against B5 agree that phasers would not tear up ships with one shot.
quote: now as for b5's weapons they are weak
PROVE IT!
(EN: Does this guy know what math is? No, he just makes statements and expects us to believe them. BIIIG deal. Who does he think he is?
Statements themselves cannot be taken as proof. The reasons are obvious: If I could make a statement and get everyone to believe me, imagine the havoc I could wreak. "The Federation can defeat the Empire! Why?! BECAUSE I SAID SO! Now get that straight jacket away from me!"
All together, another point of proof that he is a moron.)
and they are even weaker at a long range
Proof?
(EN: One wonders if the word "proof" exists in his obviously limited vocabulary......)
and are also only foward firing
That's why you've got REAR MOUNTED WEAPONS, to cover that area of the ship. Or have you never seen B5 episodes in your life?
(EN: Every B5 fan knows that ships have rear-mounted weapons. Take the Omega-class destroyer for instance. In the beginning of "Severed Dreams", the E.A.S. Alexander destroys the E.A.S. Clarkestown with rear-mounted weapons.)
which tells me that in order to make effectice attacks...they would have to attack in waves of over 50 ships at a time
Or maybe just drop in from hyperspace.
(EN: Trekkies love to make everyone fight on their terms. B5 ships will not use hyperspace for tactical maneuvers, Imperial ships will not use microjumps, et cetera. This guy claims that they would have to attack "in waves", when you could easily lure a ship into a trap and open a jump point on it like the Black Star did to the EA in "In the Beginning". Mike Wong goes into better depth on how to combat this arrogant Trekkie mentality at his site.)
(the reason for this being that a phaser array consist of over 50 individual phaser cannons) each with enough payload to destroy a b5 ship with a single shot
PROOF! PROOF! NO MORE STATEMENTS! YOU ARE NOT THE GOD OF SCI-FI! YOU MUST PROVE YOUR STATEMENTS!
(EN: Around this point, I simply lost my temper. This idiot has not bothered producing evidence from tech sites, tech manuals, personal observations from shows, NOTHING. Just wild declarations that we are to take as true.)
not only is a larger ship more efficant but it also has room to produce and store more energy than a single pilot craft
Tell that to the crew of the Yamato.
(EN: This guy's thoughts on efficiency make me cringe. If a squadron of fighters can provide the equal ship-destroying capability of an entire warship, which would you rather build? The warship, which takes large amounts of resources, personnel, and takes a long time to construct, or a squadron of fighters, with only the pilots (and possibly other positions such as modern RIOs or the gunners for the rear-facing guns in old WWII naval bombers like the Dauntless and Helldiver) and support personnel needed to keep the craft up and running. Which would be more efficient? The fighters, of course, assuming they can achieve the same ends. Sure, a warship carries more crew and has heavier weapons or more weapons, but that doesn't make it "more efficient" than a fighter in such tasks as destroying other warships.)
with these FACTS in place it is clear to me that even in a 300 vs match up the connie would remain intact and victorious
Wrong: it would be DEAD DEAD DEAD DEAD DEAD.
(EN: This guy reminds me of O.J's Dream Team. Throwing out statements like this, portraying them as FACT, when they're fiction in truth. Too bad for him that this is not a courtroom, and I am not a prosecutor with my hands tied behind my back by law. As for my statement, I was pissed off at the time and I decided to give him a bit of his own medicine. Call it spite.)
the b5 weapons dont have enough energy at close range to heavily damage shields in the mega jules department
More unsubstantied claims, I see.
2 the b5 ships have little chance of getting in close enough to do the maximum damage thier weapons can put out
And even more claims......
if such a thing were to happen the only way b5 ships would stand a chance is if they go on a kamikaze mission
Gee, something smells. What is it? Oh yeah, it's called BULLSHIT.
(EN: Seriously, we see the Trekkie mentality of making everyone fight their way resurfacing. Do they honestly think they can get away with this all the time?)
i hope i didnt ruffle any feathers but im a science major and watch both star trek and b5
And I'm the Grand Poobah of Tokyo.
(EN: That was my favorite response, honestly. Now we get to hear about how this guy is a "science major", and of course, he watches Babylon-5. How many episodes has he watched, two? How could he miss examples of firing arcs and rear-mounted weapons being displayed? Obviously he hasn't watched it enough. Also, I want to find out just where he's getting his "science major", because his teacher needs to be reported for gross negligence for failure to teach proper units of measurement!)
you can go in denial all you want but when it all boils down star trek would open a severe can of whoop ass on b5
No, when it all boils down to it Q would laugh his ass off as the Vorlons and Shadows turn the Federation into powder.
(EN: More spite on my behalf with my statement, of course. Why? This guy is now immediately degrading his opponents. "You're all in denial if you disagree with me" is not a good tactic to use. Does he think we're going to cringe in fear about the possibility of being termed "in denial"?)
no offense intended
Oh how sweet. Guess what, offense taken. Just how experienced are you with tech debating anyway?
(EN: Now he's trying to rebuild the bridges he just burned with the "denial" statement. That's even worse than just insulting his opponents. "I just insulted you, but no offense was intended." Like that's going to amend anything. That's like Hitler telling Poland, "I just attacked you with no provocation, but no offense is intended."
Also, one wonders how many crossover tech debates he's been in, considering his baseless claims.)
DX_BORG_KING's second post:
all stats i got od star trek ships came from a compliment of botf starships creator and armada as well as the tv series.....only a die hard b5 fan would even attempt to argue that b5 is even close to star trek in techlogy.....and weve all seen how effective b5 weapons are against shielding (courtasy of babylon 5 third space) the federation spent hours non stop attacking that gate with thier pathetic weapons and after the shields were up they could also not scan into the vessal to find a potential weakness...there is my proof....it may hurt but b5 has no chance of a shielded attack vessal...they could even hurt the gate shields with over 200 fighter...whats make you think it would survive a 1000 man starship with multi phasic weapons and shields...nuff said...plz take all other argument to the above listed star trek sources....
My second response:
all stats i got od star trek ships came from a compliment of botf starships creator and armada
ROFLMAO!!!!!!! LOL!!!!!!! AHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!! You're using GAMES for your proof?!?!?!?!?!?!
I've got a secret for you: *puts bullhorn to DX_BORG_KING's ear* GAMES DON'T COUNT!!!!!!!!!!!
(EN: Now we can confirm this guy knows nothing of how to rate evidence. Every competent tech debater knows you cannot use games as evidence! Star Wars games are at the bottom of the heap in terms of "canon" and "official", and ST games are, well, nothing. Zip. Nada. Less than shit.)
only a die hard b5 fan would even attempt to argue that b5 is even close to star trek in techlogy
On the contrary, the Federation has been around for a longer period than the EA, and obviously have better tech. But the Minbari have been around for over a millennia. The Centauri have been space-faring for several centuries. And they both have better tech than the EA.
And if you think I'm bad, wait until Excalibur, outofstep, and Dark Lord get here.
(EN: He really doesn't understand how B5 works, does he? In Star Trek, most races are of the same tech level, more or less. But in B5, each race has a different tech level. That's the whole basis for the InterStellar Alliance in Season 5: to give the less-advanced races better tech to promote prosperity and unity. By saying "Star Trek has a better tech level than Babylon-5", what race/s is/are he referring to? Humans, Narn, Centauri, Minbari, Vorlons, which race? Or is he thinking in terms of Trek, where everybody has similar tech? And to top it off, he immediately classifies all who disagree as "die-hard B5ers" in a sorry attempt to destroy credibility. You have to be a very arrogant (and most likely idiotic) person to immediately classify all who disagree with you as a fanatic.
I'll admit my response wasn't as relevant as it should have been. I should have pounded him with the fact that B5 has many different tech levels instead of Star Trek's nearly consistant tech level for all races. But I was starting to fall asleep at the time, and really I was still laughing at his use of games for sources and evidence, so it was a missed opportunity to pound this guy. Not like I didn't have many to begin with, though
And of course, I'm a moderate. Think of how the B5ers would react to his statements. Particularly Excalibur, who will probably earn himself a place in the Hall of Morons and Assholes one day. Borg King should feel lucky that I was the one who took him on.)
and weve all seen how effective b5 weapons are against shielding (courtasy of babylon 5 third space) the federation spent hours non stop attacking that gate with thier pathetic weapons and after the shields were up they could also not scan into the vessal to find a potential weakness
Oh, so because they were ineffective against a race that has existed for untold amount of time and WIPED OUT MOST LIFE IN THEIR UNIVERSE, they must also be ineffective against Star Trek shielding! Are you even capable of logical thought? And they didn't spend hours attacking the gate. In fact, they concentrated their firepower on the gate and punched through the shield.
And where's this shit about not scanning a vessel with raised shields coming from?
BTW, FYI: the Abbai are also supposed to possess shield tech.
{EN: You'd think a Trekkie would try to be logical, considering that they've virtually monopolized the term thanks to their pointy-eared aliens. But NOOOOOO, this idiot thinks that because Thirdspace Aliens used shields to great advantage, that means that B5 ships are useless against shielded vessels! I guess if I fired the main guns of the U.S.S. Missouri and destroyed an M1A1 Abrams MBT with one of their 16" shells, that means that a smaller 10mm shell (if one exists) can have the same effect because it's the same type of ordnance!)
there is my proof
You call that proof?
it may hurt but b5 has no chance of a shielded attack vessal
That's strange, considering that they actually managed to destroy some of the TSA fighters despite their shields, AND punched through the shield protecting the gate. And once again, we see just how illogical your statement is. What matters is A) the output for the attacking ship's weapons and B) the defensive capability of the defending ship's shields and/or armor. That requires you to do something called MATH, coupled with a little thing known as OBSERVATION. And from shows and movies, not the fucking games!
they could even hurt the gate shields with over 200 fighter
That statement makes no sense whatsoever.
(EN: One: where did this "200 fighter" number come from? Two: Why is he too stupid to proofread his work? Ad.: How embarrassing. I was reading this page for laughs again and found that I had left a typo in my response to him. Maybe I should practice what I preach a little more. :-D)
whats make you think it would survive a 1000 man starship with multi phasic weapons and shields
A) No Trek ship has multi-phasic weapons. B) Shields don't matter if you have weapons that can overpower them.
(EN: Now he's inventing crap. Trek has never used "multi-phasic" weapons, not the last time I checked (I don't watch Voyager. Crap like that is a disgrace to the Trek name.).)
nuff said...plz take all other argument to the above listed star trek sources....
Which aren't sources at all! Games are NOT CANON.
The only things that count are:
1) Events in the show
2) Statements by the bigwigs from the show (tech advisors and designers)
A debate is currently going on about whether the TNG and DS9 tech manuals can be counted.
We'll have to see about that at a later date.
Some good reference sites:
Brian Young's site on Babylon-5 tech.
Mike Wong's site on Star Wars and Star Trek tech. These count far more than your "sources".
(EN: Now it gets good! He loses it in this next post!)
DX_BORG_KING's third post:
starship creator is not a GAME!!!! it is actual facts based on the star trek genre...and IS a source.......and also i just finished watching third space again to see if youre claims hold any truth....and THEY DONT!!! they did not penetrate the shields and as far as youre argument goes there is and will be no solid proof unless paramont and the producers of b5 work together to creative a believable scenerio......and seeing how this will be my last time posting here i see no reason to respect you any longer......you think you know everything.....you think YOURE the GOD of sci-fi and try to down me when i state facts and my opinion in these threads well in my opinion youre a worthless half brained fuck shit that thinks he knows everything!!! and you obviously have no idea about energy,tech and star trek.....if you had any brain at all you would prove what youre saying without being offensive....and you havent...all youve done is asked me to prove something that is not real and is somebody elses fantasy put onscreen....and so you know you piece of fucking banthom fodder energy does not work in "waves" what the fuck were you thinking....frequencies.....frequencies..you fucking no brain cock licker....get a fucking life and stop worrieing about what fantasy is more real...or more powerful...let it be known if a single borg cube entered b5 space it would probly have to go back to da delta quadrant to drop off new "recruits" you fag mother fucker.....and i could have swore that the forums clearly stated that you show respect for other ppl who post here...which you have failed to do and since this is nil in the role of my largly busy life ill be leaving now....since any further argument would only be wasting my breath,my time,and my experiance if want to compare something..compare how pathetic youre life is too that of ppl have a life other than fantasy and the net....so fuck off and cya!!!!!!!
My third response:
starship creator is not a GAME!!!! it is actual facts based on the star trek genre...and IS a source.......
It's a game. A BIT more reliable than others, but nevertheless, it's a game.
(EN: How can Starship Creator BE anything other than a game (and a very crappy one at that)? It's called a game, everyone says it's a game, it's reported on in game magazines...... Why does he think it's not a game? The only positive mark (and it's not a very good one) is that Simon & Schuster are the ones who made it, and the info inside is from the ST Encyclopedia. It's not enough of change, however, to give Starship Creator any standing in tech debates.)
and also i just finished watching third space again to see if youre claims hold any truth....and THEY DONT!!!
Really?
they did not penetrate the shields
THEN HOW THE FUCK DID SHERIDAN GET INSIDE THE ARTIFACT?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! Did he snap his fingers and magically appear inside? Did he gain the powers of Nightcrawler from the X-Men? No! The fleet concentrated their firepower and blew a hole open for him!
(EN: Does he think I'm as stupid as he is? The breaking down of the shield protecting the gate artifact is a pivotal part of the entire story of Thirdspace, because it allows Sheridan to get in and blow the place up with a tactical nuke. How he expects me to be fooled by this evades me, but it's hard to stoop to such a low level of thinking.)
and as far as youre argument goes there is and will be no solid proof unless paramont and the producers of b5 work together to creative a believable scenerio
Then the debates are pointless! And that's not what matters in debates: what matters is estimates on firepower based on CANON examples in shows and movies!
(EN: This is just too rich. He shows up, tries to get involved in a debate, and when his stupidity gets shot down he claims we can never have the proof we need unless the makers of both shows collaborate on a crossover! He doesn't even give a thought to actually trying to make observations and calculations, or go to the two websites I provided him. One of the cornerstones of vs. debating is that while we will most likely never have a completely CANON example of the two sides fighting, we can take measurements of their speed, firepower, defensive capabilities, et cetera, and make logical guesses as to how such an encounter would likely end up.)
and seeing how this will be my last time posting here i see no reason to respect you any longer
Ooh, poor baby! Did I hurt your feelings? TOUGH! I don't need your respect anyway.
you think you know everything
I never said that. I simply shot down your points, so that's why your pouting like a little baby.
you think YOURE the GOD of sci-fi and try to down me when i state facts and my opinion in these threads
Now we're getting to the good part. I never claimed I knew everything, and I downed your "facts" because A) Your "Sources" do not count in vs. debate rules and B) they were bad anyway.
well in my opinion youre a worthless half brained fuck shit that thinks he knows everything!!!
Oh Boo hoo! You said a mean nasty thing to me! My life is over! I can't show my face around here anymore, oh boo hoo!
Stop it, you're making me laugh.
(EN: Now we've cut to the heart of the matter. His bluff has been called, so he's resulting to blustering and loud insults that he thinks will cower me. What's worse is that he might actually think I CARE about his insults.)
and you obviously have no idea about energy,tech and star trek
I could say the same for you. But I'm VERY sure that being acquainted with guys such as Brian Young and Mike Wong gives me a better background than you. Hell, just READING their sites helps one learn about energy, tech, engineering, and all those cool things.
(EN: This coming from the person who tried to measure an energy weapon in hertz? Who is he to judge my knowledge of energy and technology?)
if you had any brain at all you would prove what youre saying without being offensive
I don't have to prove anything! YOU have to prove your own points! All I did was shoot them down.
(EN: Does a criminal prosecutor have to help the defense attorney make his defense case? I think not.)
and you havent
I don't need to. Refer to above lines.
all youve done is asked me to prove something that is not real and is somebody elses fantasy put onscreen
All I've done is ask you to prove your statements by showing me CANON examples of B5 and ST firepower, range, accuracy, and defensive capability by watching the show and taking measurements! Everyone else does it, why can't you? Oh, I remember, you're some stupid "no math" Trekkie who thinks that Trek beats all.
(EN: It's called suspension of disbelief. You pretend that the events really happened, then use what happened to measure power output, mass, size, capability, etc. I know this. Most debaters now this. He obviously didn't. And yet he was the idiot who showed his face and pretended he knew how the ballgame was played. Now the ball just hit him in the balls (although one wonders if he actually has any balls) and he's griping when he shouldn't have stepped out onto the field in the first place if he didn't know the rules.)
and so you know you piece of fucking banthom fodder energy does not work in "waves" what the fuck were you thinking
YOU WERE THE IDIOT WHO TRIED TO MEASURE A MINBARI FIGHTER'S WEAPON OUTPUT IN GIGAHERTZ!!!!!!! Or are you fucking high or something?!
(EN: God dammit this guy must be some crackhead. I mean, he measures a weapon's power output in hertz, then says I did it. Even if he wisened up and realized he fucked up, why does he think he'll get away with saying I was the one who made the error? I'd hate to see what happened if he committed a crime and tried to frame someone else.)
frequencies.....frequencies..you fucking no brain cock licker
And just what the fuck are you getting to now, you lame-brained Trekkie Neanderthal?
(EN: He actually spelt "frequencies" correctly on two occasions. Quite an accomplishment for someone with such a low level of intelligence.)
get a fucking life and stop worrieing about what fantasy is more real...or more powerful
The same applies to you. Didn't you read the description? You HAD to have known this was for sci-fi vs. debates. So the same applies. Get the fuck out of the vs. debate forum.
(EN: Yet he was the one who boldly asserted that Trek HAD to be more powerful than B5, and that those who disagreed were B5 die-hard fans who were in denial. Three words: Pot. Kettle. Black.)
let it be known if a single borg cube entered b5 space it would probly have to go back to da delta quadrant to drop off new "recruits" you fag mother fucker
Let it be known that if a single borg cube entered B5 space, the Vorlons and Shadows would turn it into stir fries, you stupidass Trekkie.
(EN: I thought it didn't matter who was more powerful? Or is he so mentally unstable that he bounces from one position to the next?
Also, why does he think that more declarations of ST races beating B5 races is going to harm me in any way?)
and i could have swore that the forums clearly stated that you show respect for other ppl who post here
Sorry, it's a character trait for me. I can't respect idiots.
(EN: He comes out saying that people who disagree with him are "in denial" and "are die-hard fans", yet he wants respect? Idiot.
Besides, I rather like my ripostè. That's why I added it to my e-mail and web board signatures. :-))
which you have failed to do and since this is nil in the role of my largly busy life ill be leaving now
Then why the fuck did you come here in the first place, huh? Go ahead and leave. One less fanatic to deal with.
(EN: I fail to see why someone with a "largly busy life" (yet another spelling mistake. American education can't be this bad) would bother even coming to an online web board and posting three posts that probably took every bit of brainpower he could call upon (which isn't much, obviously). Especially when......he.....writes......like this......all the......fucking......time.)
since any further argument would only be wasting my breath,my time,and my experiance if want to compare something
Allow me to rephrase. You SHOULD have said, "Since any further argument will only show just how much of a stupid dumb bullshitting Trekkie I am........"
(EN: What experience is he referring to, anyway? Experience at the local daycare center beating up little kids for their toys? As for wasting breath, he should get a job working with hot-air balloons. He has enough hot air to keep one of those things aloft for quite a while.)
compare how pathetic youre life is too that of ppl have a life other than fantasy and the net.
I actually DO have a life off the net and away from fantasy. That's a poor attack anyway.
(EN: A question I would like to pose to the guy: What do you know about my life? Besides, haven't you ever heard of something called a hobby? No, I don't mean whacking yourself, I mean doing something fun, entertaining, and even educational, like watching history documentaries, writing sci-fi, and debating.)
so fuck off and cya!!!!!!!
Good riddance, asshole!
BTW, if you have the balls to come back, go here and learn: stardestroyer.net/Empire.html
(EN: It's really a shame he didn't see my response. But it probably would have bedazzled him. I can honestly see him having problems with such words as "documentaries", "daycare", "ripostè", and "capabilities". (Yes, I know this is a bit of a copy from one of Mike Wong's hate mail pages, but I couldn't resist. :-))